Curse

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Minion Mancers are still grossly overpowered and have been from day 1. The AI priotizes the decoys and just falls over to them. Only Save Yourselves! and Ursan provide comparable stupid levels of defense.

u forgot ¨There is nothing to fear¨

makosi · May 09, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

This is a great thing. They're dealing with the age-old issue in a convenient way.

I was always skeptical about having a full set of the same PvP and PvE skills with different numbers because it would be bothersome to remember them all. This method is the happy medium.

Mewcatus · May 09, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

To satisfy the various groups, how doing this ?

In PvE, players can CHOOSE to set their skills according to the PvE sets OR the PvP sets.

This way, people who complain that PvE sets not tying in to PvP sets can choose to do so, for another of the reasons any of the posters chose stating against it.

Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns.

2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want,

3. Pure PvPers can whine and change the skill sets ACCORDINGLY to what they deem fit to Anet

THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are )

FAIR ?

This is about the fairest way as can be, as ALL players can play the way they choose. This is WHAT gaming is ALL about.

P.S Revert Splinter Shot back to his uber days in PvE please, makes it a godly skill again, hehe

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

This update has been in the game since GW:EN launched. How positive was the effect on PvE?

UB has no effect on PvP, and as such is not subject to skill balancing.

Soul reaping will be reverted to what it was. Both of these will be joined by a whole new set of buffed skills. PvE players severely dislike nerfs, so they will henceforth receive only buffs.

Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond.

edge of extinction?

puffzilla · May 09, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Let the minions floooooooow

This should be interesting.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · May 09, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I laugh at all the whiners claiming anything PvE related is over-powered.

Unless you are a Raptor Nestling, Mountain Troll, Snowman, or any of the other poor pitiful noobs getting ganked by the uber 1337 PvE'rs, you have no feet to stand on.

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

To satisfy the various groups, how doing this ?

In PvE, players can CHOOSE to set their skills according to the PvE sets OR the PvP sets.

This way, people who complain that PvE sets not tying in to PvP sets can choose to do so, for another of the reasons any of the posters chose state against it.

Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns.

2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want,

3. Pure PvPers can whine and change the skill sets ACCORDINGLY to what they deem fit.

THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are )

FAIR ?

This is about the fairest way as can be, as ALL players can play the way they choose. This is WHAT gaming is ALL about.

P.S Revert Splinter Shot back to his uber days in PvE please, makes it a godly skill again, hehe

And what are you suppossed to do when partying with other players? You think your guildmates will want you running a subpar build? They will force you to change to whichever side gives the advantage.

Edit: EoE nerf was more to stop the PvP gimmick of Edge Bomb.

Chthon · May 09, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

1. Since you're going to do this, REMOVE THE DAMN TIMER FROM SOUL REAPING FOR PVE.

2. Moloch beat me to it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Now please make separate PvP and PvE versions of the Soul Reaping primary attribute.

3. No, I'm not kidding. REMOVE THE DAMN TIMER FROM SOUL REAPING FOR PVE. Let me expand on that a little more:

The timer is clunky, and ugly, and it punishes the player for playing well, and it randomizes something which ought to be predictable (which completely removes the possibly of playing at a skill level that plans for and "manages" available energy), and it conflicts badly with other mechanics like the minion cap and the intended synergy between Soul Reaping and corpse-exploitation skills. Removing the timer isn't about making SR more powerful; it's about fixing those problems and conflicts.
Soul Reaping is horrifically underpowered in PvP. Splitting the attribute into PvE and PvP versions makes it possible to totally rework PvP-SR into a worthwhile attribute in PvP, even if that means making it into something that would suck in PvE.

4. I am truly surprised. I had long since given up hope that any effort was going to be put into fixing GW's fundamental flaw.

5. Is this a good thing? Time will tell. My instincts tell me that this will be good for PvE, and PvP has already degenerated so far that nothing a-net could do would save it. I hear those saying that PvE will be ignored even more after the split, and I fear they may have a point, but for now I'm going to try to remain optimistic.

6. @DarkNecrid:

You are exhibiting stereotypical PvPer arrogance here. A decent PvE player is just as capable of memorizing the split skills as you are. It's insulting for you to imply they can't. What's lacking is any desire to play PvP at all in the first place.
I think the PvEers just getting into PvP that you describe don't really exist. At least not very many of them. Most PvEers who have even the slightest interest in PvP have already tried it.
If we want to get into why PvEers don't migrate to PvP, I'd say the number one reason is the intolerable assholery that permeates PvP. The environment is simply toxic. Sane people do not enjoy insurmountable rank discrimination and being called ten thousand variations on "noob" each minute. Compared to that, any disincentive posed by having to learn a few extra skills is negligible.

7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

If the implementation is good, this change would singlehandedly put me back in the boat for GW2.

I wouldn't quite go that far. But I would say that a good implementation of this split, followed by a real commitment to fixing what's broken in PvE (starting with Soul Reaping) would be enough to put me back in the boat.

Sleeper Service · May 09, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

oh wow.
now 7 heroes.

hurry, before the Energy War breaks out for real.

Chton you forgot pet corpses.

legacyofkain85 · May 09, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

At last.

Well, at least we know that if this works correctly, they will use it in GW2.
One point up for ANet and higher hopes for GW2.

Now, what's left is to know why didn't they made so before:
- Because they couldn't...?
- Because they didn't wanted to...?
- Because they had no time for that...?
Well... it doesn't really matter... but if they buff up again skills in PvE, maybe we'll see the Ursan reduced to just another gimmick, a last resort when you don't have anything suitable for the area, and not used all over the place and practially forgetting about purchasing skills as many people tent to do nowadays.

who would want to run ursan in an area if u could have an mm with no minion cap for example?lol 30 bone fiends+curses necro ,drolling

Mewcatus · May 09, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And what are you suppossed to do when partying with other players? You think your guildmates will want you running a subpar build? They will force you to change to whichever side gives the advantage.

HEY ! This is between YOU and YOUR Guild mates ! YOU / YOUR Guild mates CAN choose to gimp or pump the skills sets for whatever PvE difficulty you deem fit.

Leaving the Option is to satisfy ALL sides. PLEASE do NOT dictate HOW I should play the game.

skanvak · May 09, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Why people can't see that it is the worst move ever possible? I was looking for a world to explore, to fight in (both against real people and AI) for thing at stake in this virtual world.

What is left is a shattered game, both part would lay crippled because lacking the other... I really cannot understand all the people applauding about it.

First the group seperate, then they go to war against each other. Seperation is never good, it will only lead to more distrust between the 2 communauty.

And for last : I am looking for a bit of REALISM (verisimilitude) in MMORPG. And that update will definetly killed it. (I should say that I think that there should be no pve only skill).

Tyla · May 09, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns.

It doesn't update until you reboot Guild Wars.

Quote:

2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want

"Training" won't work if these skills are all different, effect-wise.

Quote:

THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are )

Wrong. PvX players will have to get used to 2 seperate sets of skills.

Quote:

HEY ! This is between YOU and YOUR Guild mates ! YOU / YOUR Guild mates CAN choose to gimp or pump the skills sets for whatever PvE difficulty you deem fit.

Yeah, well that won't change the fact that the AI is miserably stupid.

Star Gazer · May 09, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

oh shit, say bye bye to the 55s

zwei2stein · May 09, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

edge of extinction?

AB abuse, PvPvE mission abuse (insta kek on architect? yes pls!), EoE bombs (hell, we had skilsl deisgned ot specifically counter them - dwaynas) say otherwise.

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

HEY ! This is between YOU and YOUR Guild mates ! YOU / YOUR Guild mates CAN choose to gimp or pump the skills sets for whatever PvE difficulty you deem fit.

Leaving the Option is to satisfy ALL sides. PLEASE do NOT dictate HOW I should play the game.

As I said though, how the HECK are you supposed to run in parties with OTHER PEOPLE! How in the world does it make sense for you to be running the "PvE" version of a skill but have a teammate running the "PvP" version of the same skill? What skills do the monsters get then, the PvE or PvP version? Your suggestion is like saying people should be able to run NM and HM at the same time. In theory, it would please everybody. Its implimintation however, wouldn't really work.

DarkNecrid · May 09, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Soul Reaping is horrifically underpowered in PvP. Splitting the attribute into PvE and PvP versions makes it possible to totally rework PvP-SR into a worthwhile attribute in PvP, even if that means making it into something that would suck in PvE.

wtf?

You're kidding, right? N/Rt doesn't need a buff ok.

Quote:

You are exhibiting stereotypical PvPer arrogance here. A decent PvE player is just as capable of memorizing the split skills as you are. It's insulting for you to imply they can't. What's lacking is any desire to play PvP at all in the first place.

I never said they can't, I said it's another hurdle for them to do if they want to. Learn to read and stop putting words into my mouth.

Quote:

If we want to get into why PvEers don't migrate to PvP, I'd say the number one reason is the intolerable assholery that permeates PvP. The environment is simply toxic. Sane people do not enjoy insurmountable rank discrimination and being called ten thousand variations on "noob" each minute. Compared to that, any disincentive posed by having to learn a few extra skills is negligible.

It's the internet. Get over yourself. I don't insult people, but I don't care what some 13 year old kid says about me either. Grow a skin.

If people on the internet on an online game can make you that revolted, I really wonder how you make it out there in the real world.

Vinraith · May 09, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

oh shit, say bye bye to the 55s

That'd be great, actually. This is a perfect opening to control the power creep in PvE. Unfortunately, I have a feeling they're just going to use it as a means to bow to the "waaah, the game is hard!" crowd by pushing power creep into the next dimension. I have a feeling every area of the game that's still a challenge (and there aren't very many of them) is about to cease to be.

Just so you know Anet, if you un-nerf a bunch of PvE skills and make this game even more trivially easy than it is now, you've not only lost a GW player, you've lost a potential GW2 customer.

Pandora's box · May 09, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

A wise decision! Most PvE players have no intention to play PvP, and this takes the sting out of nerfing. Maybe some PvE players who like to join PvP will be confused at first, but their guildmates will most certainly help them out. Thumbs up!

Kashrlyyk · May 09, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

2005 is excited about this update.

That made me laugh. Let´s hope the implementation is good.